(en) Anarkismo.net: Venezuela, Interview: "The legacy of Ch?vez" by Bruno Lima Rocha (pt)

"Venezuela will not return to its previous stage, even if the opposition wins the 
presidential election ever." The statement is Bruno Lima Rocha, in an interview with IHU 
On-Line by e-mail, to comment on the expectations of Venezuelan politics after the death 
of Hugo Chavez. In his assessment, the legacy is evidenced Chavista "in better 
distribution of the country's GDP, and by 1998 this was concentrated. 80% of the wealth 
generated in the country, mostly through oil PDVSA, (...) does not even reach 20% of the 
population. " Although envision an immediate continuation of the Chavista political 
project, Rocha points out that "this implies legacy and heritage policy Chavista leaders 
do not have the degree of internal cohesion needed to keep it. When the opposition is 
again defeated at the polls, the problem will again be endogenous. "

IHU On-Line - On the one hand, the Venezuelan political system has received much criticism 
because of the actions of Hugo Chavez and, secondly, had popular support and some segments 
of the left. What was his political project?

Bruno Lima Rocha - Respond to this question, as everything that relates to Venezuela after 
1998, is also establish an analytical position. Chavez is a character who emerges as a 
national hero after a failed coup attempt in February 1992. This reflected a moment of 
exhaustion oligarchic pact and went to meet the desperate population after the massacres 
under the Caracazo of 1989. What can we interpret is that Chavez and his closest allies 
understood the need to break with the Pact of Punto Fijo and bring the policy excluded the 
masses of the country. To do so, they had to transfer some power to them and channel it 
through the charismatic leader. Already legitimacy came with the election mechanism, 
accused by the right of being plebiscitary. The almost 14 years ahead of Miraflores Palace 
also served to replenish the ruling elites of the country, with all costs that entails, 
including the presence of careerists and turncoats coming from the oligarchic period.

IHU On-Line - where Chavez spoke in developing socialism of the XXI century. What was this 
proposal and how it was developed over your government?

Bruno Lima Rocha? I understand that the project Ch?vez was the modernization of society, 
developing possible within the public services, causing minimal state would meet the 
aspirations and rights of the majority. The XXI century socialism came to be drafted in 
situations such as tables Political Techniques and experiments communal autonomy (the 
so-called committees of land) in urban, suburban and rural areas for example. But when the 
Fifth Republic Movement gives rise to the creation of the PSUV, this "party" with almost 
any program unit can not be the engine of any social exchange. If not for the presence of 
the oligarchy, we would see a socializing process much more interesting, emerging 
contradictions and conflicts within the Bolivarian movement and that would go against the 
endogenous right call. Unfortunately, in my estimation, the XXI century socialism becomes 
a discursive resource to resume the spread of socialist ideas on which Ch?vez himself not 
manifested a high degree of definition.

IHU On-Line - What were the main successes and failures of the Chavista government?

Bruno Lima Rocha - depends on your point of view, but for the sustainability of the 
project, it would be necessary to increase the level of political culture and try to 
modify the state from within. I understand that a mistake was excessive centralization of 
decision and trigger somewhat irregular, very susceptible. It's what in Spanish is called 
occurrences. An idea occurred to him and was able to move mountains to interpret it, read 
a book and quoted in the following discourse. A settlement has been fighting for control 
of the media capital and oligarchic families, reminding them that they were holding public 
concession and not inherited by prescription of the spectrum. Another hit, but this a 
great goal, was to create a whole structure of social assistance and promotion, totally 
lacking before.

IHU On-Line - What are the social, cultural and economic conditions offered by Venezuela's 
Chavez government? What is his legacy?

Bruno Lima Rocha - Venezuela will not return to its previous stage, even if the opposition 
wins the presidential election ever. The legacy of Ch?vez is in better distribution of the 
country's GDP, and by 1998 this was concentrated. 80% of the wealth generated in the 
country, mostly through oil PDVSA (a state with Chavez, a mixed capital company, but under 
oligarchic control before), does not even reach 20% of the population. For others it was 
the lottery of life, including a high degree of political repression - considering 
disappearances and murders. If this notion that majorities can mobilized to ensure the 
achievements and pluck rights is maintained, with some degree of belligerence class, then 
the legacy of Ch?vez remains. The problem is that this legacy implies political heritage 
and the Chavista leaders do not have the degree of internal cohesion needed to keep it. 
When the opposition is again defeated at the polls, the problem will again be endogenous.

IHU On-Line - What readings can be made of social data presented throughout the Ch?vez 
government. Today people live better in Venezuela?

Bruno Lima Rocha - I will not be listing data here, because the indices of GDP and the 
GINI coefficient - patterns that are questionable, but accepted worldwide - are 
irrefutable. Today Venezuelans live better, have their own identity, assistance and basic 
services and rights, before the Venezuelan economy, life expectancy considerably. 
Previously, the majority of Venezuela had nothing, including rural populations, african, 
remaining Quilombo, fishermen, farmers and other sectors who lived in craft production. 
The social missions and activities linked to the ministries of the executive branch are 
irrefutable. I do not see a setback as possible, with the worsening living conditions 
being accepted by the majority.

IHU On-Line - What are the political expectations for Venezuela in the coming years?

Bruno Lima Rocha - I understand that Nicolas Maduro will win the elections markedly 
against the new unity of opposition by the governor of Miranda state, Henrique Capriles. 
In recent state elections, the PSUV took 20 of the 23 states. After the victory likely, 
the future will rest on the relationship between Maduro and other political leaders and 
between the PSUV and the popular movements.

IHU On-Line - What parallel can be drawn between Lula and Chavez and other Latin American 
leaders?

Bruno Rocha Lima - Chavez has become a more credible version of Lula, and the former 
president of Brazil is considered by ideologues of the Latin American right as the leader 
of a center-left not classist. The class dimension, in its most common perspective (linked 
to the world of work), is hardly present in the discourse of Chavez and totally absent in 
the discourse and political practice of Lula. But Chavez's government breaks with the 
oligarchy of their country while here it has been strengthened, as well as the sectors of 
industry, construction, financial and landlordism. Ch?vez and Lula vying for hegemony in 
international relations and Latin American, even under the leadership of Brazil, Venezuela 
was the trigger that led to the installation of curb Free Trade Area of ??the Americas - 
FTAA and partially relocate to Brazil's foreign policy. The more aggressive foreign policy 
and willing to reinvest in productive chains broken in neighboring countries was also very 
positive.

IHU On-Line - Barack Obama said he is willing to a rapprochement with Venezuela. After the 
death of President Hugo Ch?vez, as there will be some change U.S. relations with Latin 
America?

Bruno Lima Rocha - yes That can happen and it could shake the Latin American relations. If 
Venezuela is the pillar of a proposal for Latin American unity, if the State Department 
can modify the position of Venezuela, or, for example, intervene somehow in bilateral 
trade between the two countries, perhaps the new leadership Maduro will slow down the 
political relations. What occurs is a business partnership dissociated political 
relations. The first government ahead of Obama's State Department achieved some victories 
on the continent, such as the blows whites in Honduras and Paraguay. It would be a victory 
for the Empire trigger the relaxation of Venezuela's position as a pillar of a proposal 
for political and economic unity - within the frameworks of capitalism, the example of 
what happened in the period of the National Developmental State - on the continent.

IHU On-Line - What future for glimpses chavismo? The political and ideological line could 
remain implemented without Ch?vez?

Bruno Lima Rocha - is precisely this multiplicity of interpretations and lines lies the 
danger. Chavez opponents before generates more cohesion than ahead of its allies and 
followers. Internally, insurance is the maintenance of welfare services and income 
distribution through various benefit programs. Externally, the maintenance of trade 
relations varied approaches and policies with leaders and countries that are far from the 
U.S. orbit. But from these broader definitions, now any predictions would be more 
speculative than analytical.

IHU On-Line - Want to add something?

Bruno Lima Rocha - One of the most important features in the period Ch?vez was the 
incorporation of a new symbology in the country. The Venezuelan movements inspired by the 
readings of Bol?var, Sucre, Miranda, Boves, Zamora and other popular leaders of the 
independence period and the first years of the republic. It is very important to have 
several leftists who know merge the use of new technologies, which operate in the war of 
4th generation (information, meaning, identity, versions) and, at the same, time to try to 
reflect a continuity with the training of Venezuelan society.

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