#WORLD #WORLDWIDE #VIETNAM #ANARCHISM #News #Journal #Update - (en) anarkismo.net: Mèo Mun, Anarchist Views from Vietnam by Mèo Mun, The Final Straw Radio (ca, de, it, fr, pt)[machine translation]

 Mèo Mun is an anarchist collective working to make anarchist materials and ideas

more accessible to a Vietnamese audience, together with providing an analysis of
social struggles from a Vietnamese anarchist lens. Over the next hour you'll hear
three collective members, Mai, Will and tùng share their critiques of leftist
misrepresentations of the Vietnamese State as Socialist, lasting impacts of
imperialism and war on populations of Vietnam, the centering US imaginaries of
Vietnam, the struggles of working class people in general (and queer folks and
sex workers in particular) in Vietnam, nationalism promoted by the government and
other topics.
TFSR: Would you please introduce yourselves with any names, preferred gender
pronouns, affiliations or political identities as make sense for this
conversation? Can you tell us a little about... is it pronounced Mèo Mun?

Mai: Yes, it's pronounced Mèo Mun. I'm Mai, I use any/all pronouns. I don't
particularly use any political label, but I adhere to many anarchist principles.

Will: My name is Will. I use they/them pronouns. I'm an anarcho-communist.

tùng: Hi, I am tùng. I use any/all pronouns, I am an anarchist against the state
and capitalism.

TFSR: Thanks for being here!

So, I am excited to have this conversation with you, thanks for making time and
effort to chat! As anarchists from Vietnam, could you give us some highlights of
the history of libertarian anti-capitalist and anarchist ideas and movements in
Vietnam and what the milieu looks like today? And what sorts of topics and
engagement drive those groups?

Will: As a preface, we are quite cut off from our roots. Many of us had lived for
decades until we even heard of the word that encompasses our ideas and ways of
life. The elaborate and complex history of the struggle for liberation in 20th
century Vietnam is painted with a single stroke: you were either a patriotic
Stalinist or a reactionary traitor, a colonial, fascist collaborator. The
Marxist-Leninists who now rule the country only came into power by systemically
eradicating all the other oppositional currents, labeling them traitors, and so
yeah, of course they'd like to have a clear black and white narrative, of course
they'd like for there to be no nuances; they'd look kind of bad otherwise and
that'd weaken their grip on power. So, documents about anarchism or general
radicalism in Vietnam, that divert from the State's narrative are usually
inaccessible in Vietnamese, either as hard copies, or scattered around obscure
corners of the internet. That's why we are on our very own bumpy road to learn
and reconnect with our roots.

Historically, anarchism in Vietnam never grew into a wide-spread political
movement. However, the struggle against the state, particularly states of the
most populous ethnic group-the Kinh / Viet-can be traced all the way back to
feudal times. Ethnic minorities living in upland Vietnam have been resisting the
Kinh / Viet state's expansionism for a very long time. James C. Scott remarks in
the book The Art of not Being Governed: An Anarchist History of Upland Southeast
Asia that many aspects of their cultures and ways of living can be read as
anti-state and anti-authoritarian, meaning that they have, in a way, long
practiced the tradition of keeping the state at arm's length, out of their
affairs. Their struggles continue until this very day, and we have much to learn
from them. We must stress, though, that we should not retroactively apply the
label "anarchist" to these groups and their practices, nor should we call what
they do "anarchism." As Simoun Magsalin, our Filipino comrade, observes about the
anarchist milieu in the archipelago: we should be critical of the anarchist
equivalents of a "noble savage" trope, and the search for a "pure" indigeneity
unspoiled by the State that decolonization can return to. In the same vein, we
have before criticized the idea popular amongst many Marxist-Leninists, that
homophobia in Vietnam is solely a product of Western colonialism, and pre-French
colonial Vietnam was a haven for queer people. Oof.

Anarchists, as well as radicals influenced by anarchist principles, also
participated in the struggle against colonialism and imperialism of the 20th
century. For example, under the yoke of French colonialism, the radical Nguyen An
Ninh called for the youth of Vietnam to "reinvent itself and take control of its
own destiny." He critiqued the Confucian family values of parental authority,
gender inequality and traditional morality, encouraging people to "break with the
past and free themselves from tyranny of all kinds." He fought side by side with
other anarchists and libertarian communists such as Trinh Hung Ngau and Ngô Van
(a former Trotskyist), in the labor movement. But as we've mentioned before, the
Stalinists came into power by systematically eradicating all the radicals from
oppositional currents like the anarchists, and indeed the Trotskyists who were
brutally slaughtered. Ngô Van, the former-Trotskyist-turned-council-communist who
we mentioned earlier, went on to produce many materials critical of the
authoritarian, counter-revolutionary nature of the Stalinists after fleeing their
persecution to France.

Mai: As for the contemporary anarchist milieu in Vietnam, it is extremely
vulnerable and atomised. We simply don't have contact with other groups, even
though there might be quite a few out there. Those groups might wisely want to
keep more to themselves rather than reaching out, since state repression is quite
severe. This is a challenge for us, as one of our goals is to find a way for Viet
anarchist groups to safely connect, communicate, and exchange experiences, if
they so wish. Another reason is that our milieu has been chronically isolated
from the milieus in other countries. There are many reasons for this lack of
international interaction, such as language barriers and, again, state
repression, but also a relative lack of support, solidarity and understanding
from the Western left and anarchist community. We believe that anarchism, as a
method of revolution, cannot be applied successfully by an isolated group, in
other words, without international solidarity. The exchange of information and
ideas, as well as the interlinking of our struggles are absolutely essential for
the mutual strengthening of anarchist communities. And so, at the moment,
building coalition with other milieus in South East Asia is one of the tasks that
we prioritize. It's also why we really appreciate the opportunity you have given
us here on the podcast today!

Having said that, we are aghast that in many leftist circles in the West, Vietnam
is painted as this Socialist haven where people think and act like a hive-mind,
and the only ones speaking against the state are reactionary traitors, or CIA
agents. So-called anarchists are paying to be fed those lies; so-called
anarchists are capitalizing on those lies. We've lost count of how many times we
have been fed-jacketed without any evidence whatsoever, and the people exposing
us to harassment and doxxing got away scott-free. This stems from how the
struggles in Vietnam and other over-exploited countries have been ignored by the
majority of Western leftists for decades, especially when we can't be used as
ammunition in their own political discourse. This makes talking about our
experience in Vietnam all the more dangerous, and it actively discourages anyone
who might start speaking out.

As we touched on a bit before, organizing outside of the state framework in
Vietnam, whether online or on the ground, is dangerous: the threats of police
violence and incarceration are always looming over us and our loved ones. Many
leftists seem to think of Vietnamese police as heroic defenders of the working
class. It really shouldn't need to be stated, but no, they're not. Vietnamese
police exists to protect the State and capitalist property in Vietnam. Police
violence and deaths in custody in Vietnam are a well-documented reality. In
Vietnam, the ruling party holds all executive, legislative and judiciary power.
Cops don't even need a court subpoena to enter our houses. Commoners like us grow
up being taught to stay away from cops and everyone is used to bribing them. As
for the law, there is a clause against the making, storage and spreading of
material for the purpose of opposing the state and you could be sentenced to 5 or
12 years, if you're caught.

Speaking from personal experience, many Viet anarchists seek out anarchism
because we are marginalised in other ways on top of being exploited by
capitalists as workers. Within Mèo Mun, many of our members are queer, disabled,
and/or young. Some were radicalised while trying to organize rather unfruitfully
within the liberal framework. Some have cited the horrible abuse they have
suffered under the education and medical system. Some used to organize as
Marxist-Leninists, simply because Marxism-Leninism is synonymous with Communism
in Vietnam, but then can't reconcile their reality with such an ideology anymore.
So queer liberation, youth liberation, as well as disability justice and care are
some of the passions that keep us going.

And also, I think I forgot to introduce a bit about Mèo Mun as a collective.
Would it be possible for me to do that now?

TFSR: Of course!

Mai: Ok, so Mèo Mun is an anarchist collective working to make anarchist
materials and ideas more accessible to a Vietnamese audience, together with
providing an analysis of social struggles from a Vietnamese anarchist lens.
Specifically, we do the work of archiving, translating, and disseminating
anarchist texts, which can be found on the online Southeast Asian Anarchist
library. There is also a very gradual translation of English Wikipedia pages
related to anarchism into Vietnamese. You know, because Wikipedia tends to be the
first place people come to for a basic understanding of new concepts. We try to
reach a wider audience on social media as well, and we write and speak to educate
people on what our experiences in Vietnam are like. The anarchist milieu in
Vietnam is very atomized, so one of our goals is to connect Viet anarchists
together, and provide a safer space for them to express themselves and exchange
ideas, without fear of state repression, or mass harassment from statists and
nationalists. Naturally, we make an active effort to include Viet anarchists in
the diaspora in our organizing.

Individually, our members also participate in feminist, queer liberation, youth
liberation and prisoners solidarity organizing.

TFSR: Awesome, thank you so much for the really thoughtful answers you've been
giving, very clear.

So, you've already spoken on the pervasiveness of the police state and mentioned
capitalist property and some other things in Vietnam. I would love to hear your
perspectives on the political and economic direction of the State of Vietnam. An
essay of yours that caught my attention is entitled "The Broken Promises of
Vietnam" in which you argue that the "Socialist Republic of Vietnam" is not
actually socialist. You describe similar instances of neo-liberal national
economic infrastructure development taking precedence over preserving ecosystems
and leaving intact indigenous communities, let alone general public health. You
also describe a government wielding a Nationalistic vision of citizens that
excludes ethnic and sexual minorities and that allows for billionaires to rise
while the working classes and peasants are displaced. Can you talk about this,
about those broken promises and who are some communities most imperiled by the
Nationalistic tenor of the CPV?

Will: So, in terms of politics, Vietnam is a crony Capitalist country. The
success of a business depends entirely on how well they could navigate the
unofficial channels of the state, on their relationships with the government or
Party members and how much money they are willing to spend on bribery.
Officially, Vietnam is dubbed a Socialist country, but the class stratification
can be observed in our everyday life. We have a so-called "People's" billionaire,
Pham Nhat Vuong, who, allegedly, built his empire from shaking hands with
government officials to hoard land at a dirt-cheap price. He owns a total of $7.3
billion in assets, equivalent to the total assets of about 800,000 Vietnamese (on
average). Very Socialist! Not to mention that Vietnam also has many other
billionaires, enough to have a Shark Tank show right on national television. The
very first promise, that the commoners who sacrificed everything for Vietnam's
liberation would be directly in charge of it, was shattered the very moment the
Vietnamese government came into being.

The current Secretary of the Communist Party also openly praises capitalism,
spicing it up with some superficial lukewarm critiques of capital! He said, and I
quote: "We acknowledge that Capitalism has never been as global as it is today
and has achieved many great achievements, especially in the utilization and
development of productive capabilities and scientific-technological progress."
So, we're just supposed to ignore all the toils the working class has
historically and currently endured under capitalist Vietnam, for a Communism that
may never even come! The end justifies the inhumane means, apparently.

As for nationalism, we mentioned it in the article "The Broken Promises of
Vietnam," but if you speak up and criticise the State, no matter how valid your
points, how copious your evidences, you will be seen as going against the
Vietnamese people, the Vietnamese nation, because the government has a vested
interest in confusing party loyalty with the very natural and precious love that
we have for our culture and fellow Vietnamese.

And as you know, nationalism sells the lie of a trans-class solidarity, that we
Viet workers have more in common with Viet capitalists like Pham Nhat Vuong,
rather than with fellow workers from China, Cambodia, Myanmar, or indeed the US.
While in reality, Vietnamese capitalists and government go hand in hand with
capitalists the world over to brutally exploit Vietnam's cheap labor and natural
resources. This can be observed in the outsourced manufacturing of electronic
components and textile products to Vietnam, in the many Special Economic Zones
that are mushrooming all over the country. There can't ever exist any meaningful
solidarity between us, between the capitalists and the working class, and the
people in power are understandably frightened that the workers in Vietnam would
one day see through this gross lie.

Consequently, they are dead-set on stoking the nationalist flame in Vietnam.
That's why career communists based in Vietnam spew absolute nonsense like
"nationalism is crucial to communism in Vietnam." Actually, Vietnamese
nationalism is crucial to Vietnamese capitalism and authoritarianism. And the
indoctrination process starts young.

Let's examine the 5 commandments that Uncle Ho, Ho Chí Minh, taught Vietnamese youth:

1. Love your Fatherland, love your compatriots.

2. Learn well, work well.

3. Good unity, good discipline.

4. Good hygiene.

5. Be modest, honest, and brave.


These are hung in almost every classroom in Vietnam (usually with a photo of
Uncle Ho). Many students are forced to learn them by heart. What comes first in
these teachings? "Love your Fatherland." Your fatherland comes before your
compatriots. Children, who have not yet understood the concept of a "Fatherland,"
let alone fully grasping what loving a Nation-state implies, are taught to put
their "Fatherland" before themselves, before their family and friends. The next
commandment: "Learn well" and "Work well." For whom? In our opinion, also for
your Fatherland, which is to say, for the state and the capitalists.

If you dare to question any of that, you'd likely be branded a traitor, a
reactionary, a fake Vietnamese. If you dare to be "lazy" and not "work well," you
are a burden on society (disabled veterans in Vietnam are literally called
"invalids;" we have "The Ministry of labor - War Invalids and Social Affairs").
The purpose of Vietnam's education system, in our opinion, is to shape students
into obedient workers or cogs in its capitalist machine, similar in essence to
any other capitalist education system.

Also, many well-known authors whose works are featured in Vietnamese textbooks
also incessantly preach nationalism and the idolatry of political figures like
Uncle Ho, Lenin, and yes, Stalin. A 1993 poem by To Huu, famed Vietnamese poet,
reads:

"Oh, Stalin!

Alas, do the earth and sky mourn Your departure

If I'm to love my father, my mother, my husband

and myself one, then I love You ten."

So, "I love you three thousands, Stalin." Ouch! That's not very good...

Consuming products from Viet brands and Viet media is widely considered
"patriotic." Which makes non-consumption unpatriotic. How convenient for the
market economy! Oh and, not only Viet media, but also foreign media which uses
Vietnamese labor. In 2018, a Hollywood blockbuster was filmed in HaLong Bay,
Vietnam. The film set was then utilized by the authority as a tourist attraction.
The whole issue of how that movie depicts US soldiers in Vietnam and local people
asides, as we read about and cheer for the ongoing IATSE strike, we can't help
but wonder if Vietnamese actors, extras and crew hired in film productions
outsourced to Vietnam are compensated fairly and equally compared to their US
counterparts. Fun fact: there hasn't been a legal strike in more than 25 years in
Vietnam. The General Confederation of labor, which is supposed to represent the
interests of the workers, hasn't been organizing strikes, and so all the strikes
that did take place were illegal. It's apparently unacceptable for the workers to
organize and demand better conditions for themselves; a workers' struggle is only
legitimate in the eye of the state if the state can control its direction.

Mai: A field where nationalist sentiments are particularly intense is sport,
mainly soccer. There was this photo of a person holding a portrait of Uncle Ho at
a soccer match, which went viral a while back. That photo was said to be the
evidence that Viet people love Uncle Ho. What was conveniently not mentioned is
how the sport scene in Vietnam is one of the best showcases for how poisonous
Vietnamese nationalism is.

Rampant on Vietnamese Social Media is the xenophobic attitude when our national
football team have a match, especially with other Southeast Asian teams. If the
referee makes a decision that's unfavorable for the Vietnamese team, their
Facebook or other social media accounts will be flooded with tons of vitriol and
death threats. The same thing will happen to the opposing team's players if they
were deemed "too aggressive" or simply scored the decisive goal. It's even worse
with women teams, where there'll be slews of misogynist, transphobic and
degrading language. Many Viet sport fans like to joke that all Thai women are
transgender women, with the heavy implication that they are not "real" women. To
the nationalist sport fans, all the other teams are inferior, mixed-blooded, full
of unnatural citizens, and hence has an unfair advantage. To them, the Vietnamese
team is simply the best; any losses are only due to these unfair advantages.

As you may also know, nationalism seeks to create an in-group, out-group
mentality, and Vietnamese nationalism constantly and violently excludes Viet
ethnic minorities. A stark example is how the education-indoctrination system
strips them of their culture and language. There are 54 ethnic groups in Vietnam,
with more than 100 Vietnamese dialects, yet there is only one official language
taught in school and used in exams, the language of the dominant Viet Kinh group.
This naturally puts people from other ethnic groups at a huge disadvantage. Many
schools force their students to wear áo dài as uniform, regardless of their
ethnicity, even though áo dài is a Kinh garment. Attempts to even out the ground
for ethnic minorities face vicious backlash from Viet Kinh people, such as when
the government tried to give bonus points in the national university entrance
exam for ethnic minority students. Instead of getting rightfully angry at an
education system which dehumanizes its students, forcing them to brutally compete
with their peers for a chance to be exploited by capitalists, many Kinh people
blamed and unleashed their wrath on ethnic minorities.

Those are our observations about the political and economic situation in Vietnam.
Based on those symptoms, and dare we also draw some parallels with certain
formerly "Communist" countries, we could tentatively share our guess on the
direction of the Vietnamese state and its so-called Socialism-oriented market
strategy, should it continue to fester unchallenged. However, we are not prophets
speaking gospel, nor scientists playing with solid statistics here; we will not
invoke some sacred words like "science" and "materialism" and from that claim
absolute truth. What we will say is this: without mass mobilization and
resistance of the working class, the Vietnamese state will strengthen its grip on
the populace, through law, nationalism or hierarchical social conditioning. And
capitalism, hand in hand with the state, will dig its claws further into the
exploited classes, drawing out from them all they can offer. The working class of
Vietnam will be further fragmented as capitalism consolidates its influence
together with its exploitation, delegitimizing worker struggles against it. This
would ingrain a sense of resignation and self-absorbed struggle in individual
workers and prevent the building of solidarity amongst them.

TFSR: Some proponents of what's called "Socialism" in Vietnam will argue that, in
fact, the work that the Communist Party has brought forth has improved the
quality of life of people in Vietnam. Have you heard of this claim, does that
ring true in your experience that there has been development in the quality of
individuals' lives economically or educationally that could be attributed
specifically either to so-called Socialism in Vietnam or through improvements
from market society?

Mai: Why yes, we've heard this argument before, and our eyes roll every time.
First, it is undeniably true that the qualify of life has been raised. And so
what? That doesn't prove that the same couldn't have been achieved under another
political system; life everywhere has been improving. Where is the evidence to
pin this development on the so-called Socialism of Vietnam? It's a wishy-washy
way to justify the authoritarianism of the Vietnamese state and deflect from
valid criticisms.

Will: And to add on to that, a suitable analogy would probably be prisoners not
having to work as much. Sure, it's an improvement to before, that still doesn't
change the fact that they're still prisoners, still robbed of freedom and forced
to toil under the same old master. Same thing here. Great, now we have internet;
we also have no union to defend us against exploitation by the capitalists.
Great, we get fastfood; we also have a state that's just free of any control
mechanism and can do what it wants (that's how's hierarchies of power work!).
Great, we have iphones, ipads and gucci. The workers manufacturing for those
corporates certainly can't afford iphones, ipads and the newest gucci bag! But,
whatever. So, okay, nice, quality of life has gone up. We're not gonna say that's
bad, that'd be kind of stupid. But at what cost, in what context? The growth of
quality of life is a good thing, but you can't just ignore everything else
surrounding it. A pizza party is nice, but you know what is nicer? Being in
charge of our own life, our fruit of labor, and not being exploited and robbed of
freedom. Partially because it includes a pizza party in it.

Mai: This line of argument also exposes a double standard casually applied for us
people in over-exploited countries by many leftists and anarchists. Would you say
the same to, say, queer people in more prosperous countries. "Hey you can get
married now, you can even adopt children now. Why don't you praise and be
grateful to your capitalist government?" I'm sure there are people saying this to
marginalised groups in more prosperous countries, but any anarchists worth their
dime would vehemently and rightfully refute it. Yet everyone seems to be fine
when this argument is casually thrown at people in so-called Third World
countries. As if we're supposed to be grateful for more crumbles! No, we want a
seat at the table. We want everyone to have a seat at the table!

TFSR: Yeah, and when you're referring to industrialists in Vietnam having an
income level equal to, I think you said, 80,000 other people.. At what cost and
how is that distributed?

Will: Yeah, also it's 800,000 people.

TFSR: Excuse me, factor of ten... Thanks for being willing to tackle that question

What might be visions of libertarian communist approaches to some of the
questions of raising the quality of life for people in Vietnam? Is that the sort
of framing that you would use for a positive anarchistic vision forward? It seems
like, just to add on, I've heard that in some countries that are ostensibly
Communist or Socialist that people who are critical of the government sometimes
have an allergy to those terms, to a positive turn of those turns, because it's
been shoved down their throats in such a negative way.

Will: Yeah, well...

Mai: Definitely, yeah[laughs]

Will: To me, it's about representation. The State, this grand old thing, imposed
all of those things on them, so I mean what choice do they have?

First and foremost, it must be said before any libertarian communist or anarchist
vision can be realised, the people in Vietnam have to recognise that there exists
deep problems with the current political system, and that there are solutions to
those problems. The sad reality is this: the majority of Vietnamese people are
alienated from politics (as authoritarian states tend to do to the people they
oppress). So, politics is something done to them, rather than by them.

The state has built up for itself a shining image of legitimacy. And so even
though many will say that there are problems with Vietnam as a whole, they are
unlikely to be able to pin that to the political system. Maybe they can say that
corruption is a severe problem of Vietnamese society. Maybe they can connect it
to individual politicians and their supposed moral failing. But they won't be
able to say that corruption is only a symptom of the system and that, more
specifically, hierarchies of power are simply incompatible with the interests of
those at the bottom of the hierarchy, of the majority. Maybe they would even say
that the one-party system is clearly not working, but mistake the illusion of
choice of multi-party system for total liberation, for freedom. The root of the
problems just eludes many.

There is also a sense of apathy and learnt helplessness that has been ingrained
into the population, and so, as of now, the potential of political action and
change is not great. This exacerbates the previous problem, in the sense that,
even if a majority of people recognize the root of the problem, they do not think
that they themselves and, only themselves, have the power to solve it. Or they
think that the alternatives would only be even worse: either U.S.
capitalism/liberalism or the kind of "Communism" with severe scarcity and
corruption before the Doi Moi reform - which mind you many Vietnamese still
remember and are understandably frightened of. This is what we mean when we say
Vietnamese people are alienated in politics.

We also recognise that historically in Vietnam, the traditional labor movement
has alienated many groups, such as ethnic minorities, sex workers, people of
marginalized genders and sexuality, disabled people, unemployed people,
criminalized people, and young people. Moving forwards, it is important to make
our movements inclusive enough for the many fronts against various forms of
oppressions, not just class struggles. Of course, the working class is the only
class capable of toppling capitalism, but our definition of "work" and "workers"
needs to change radically.

So... a vision-a hope even-is that, through putting their predicament under the
capitalist society of Vietnam into perspective and laying bare the fact that no
one but themselves have the power to change it all for the better, people will
gradually be free of the mental limitations and have the want to take control of
their lives instead of putting it at the mercy of "the powers that be." And when
the recognition, the will and the want, happens, we trust that they will go only
one short step further and come to adopt libertarian communist approaches for
their struggles, even if they don't declare themselves to be affiliated with any
specific ideology. Again though, we are not prophets and to prophesize on a
strict revolutionary form is an unwise and pointless endeavor.

But if we can say one thing about our approaches and our visions for a better
quality of life in the future, we may call attention to community building. Given
what we mentioned earlier regarding the alienation of the worker and the
fragmentation of the working class, there is merit in considering a parallel
process: of healing the wounds of alienation that capitalism left on all of us;
and of educating each other on essential political knowledge, examples being food
sovereignty, pre-figurative social organizing, and independent union building.
And in an age where technology has become an integral part of our lives, it is
short-sighted to overlook or undermine the importance of online organizing. The
social relations produced and reproduced through online organizing is every bit
as pre-figurative as the social relations of on-the-ground organizing. Certain
aspects are different, sure, but the essence of it is the same: the building and
maintaining of structures capable of facilitating our interactions as equals.
Through our own organizing, we've also found online archiving and dissemination
of anarchist materials to be critical in the context of our milieu in Vietnam,
where severe censorship and state repression have proven to be highly effective
in weeding out dissenting voices, and isolating those who would otherwise band
together to collectively speak out against the state narrative.

And as to the framing... Yes! I think this is the framing that we will proceed
with. Unlike the previous revolution in our history, ours won't be one where the
people are pushed into a so-called revolution by some self-righteous vanguard
party. That kind of revolution has proven itself to be undeniably disastrous. And
we would love to not repeat that. The true revolution should be a continuous
process, in which everyone can partake right here, right now, on their own volition.

TFSR: Would you speak about the situation in Vietnam for people of marginalized
genders, queer folks in Vietnam as well as folks criminalized for sex work?

Mai: Sure. The situation for queer folks is not great, though getting better.
Same-sex marriage was criminalized until 2015. Then, the law prohibiting same-sex
marriage was abolished, but it is still not legalized. So, since marriage comes
with certain privileges in our current society, many queer people in Vietnam are
stigmatized and barred from the medical, financial and other material privileges
that their non-queer counterparts couples enjoy. Marriage equality is the front
in which liberal organizations working within the state framework seem to pour a
lot of effort.

For transgender people, as far as we know, there isn't a single hospital in
Vietnam that is allowed to perform gender-affirming surgeries for so-called
"normal" people, only for people who were in an accident or have "birth defects."
At the same time, non-consensual, non-medically necessary medical interventions
are still performed on intersex children, as they are permitted by law.

Transgender people who wish to undergo gender-affirming surgery often have to go
through an intermediate center, and the whole process (examination, papers and
surgery) is usually done in Thailand. Hormone therapies are not easily accessible
through mainstream methods, but through the black market. They really have to bet
their lives if they want to use hormones. Not only that, because of low supply
and having to do surgery abroad, the amount of money one needs to spend to
undergo gender-affirming surgeries can be approximately $20,000, even more if you
account for long-term hormone treatments. To put this into perspective, the
average yearly household income of a Vietnamese person is $2,235, before food and
rent/mortgage and such. And remember, the $20,000 is only for the surgery. So,
the cost is an absurdly high amount for the majority of Vietnamese people, who
have to work hard just to put food on the table and keep a roof over their heads.

About sex work in Vietnam, we will speak not from personal experience, but from a
place of legality and personal observation. Legally, sex work and even
pornography are criminalized; sex workers used to face incarceration in so-called
"rehabilitation centers" and still are charged with hefty fines if caught in
raids, they are subjects of systemic stigmatization and discrimination as well,
especially sex workers living with HIV. It was not until 2013 that detention
center number 05 was shut down; it's the rehabilitation center in which sex
workers and drug users were detained and regularly subjected to forced labor
disguised as "career training." Supposedly, the closing of this detention center
happened under the pressure from, as far as we know, an organization by and for
sex workers in Vietnam called Vietnam Network for Sex Workers, amongst others. We
could not find other sources to corroborate this, however, so we can't say for
certain this is what happened. Although, we certainly hope so! We suspect the
reason for the scare sources has to do with the media not wanting to acknowledge
sex workers' existence since sex workers in Vietnam exist in this limbo wherein
they're criminalized, stigmatized, but also hyper-visible.

As for major queer, feminist, and sex worker organizations outside of the State
framework, we are not aware of any, unfortunately. Yes, organizations that do not
directly associate with the government exist; NGOs are by no means illegal. But
that doesn't mean they're outside of the State framework. To truly be outside of
the State framework, an organization must have the aim to work outside of that
framework in the first place, hence giving a reason for organizing that doesn't
involve the State and doesn't subject itself to the bounds the State establishes.
There is no such thing as being accidentally outside of the State framework. And
indeed, the organization we mentioned above express quite a bit of friendliness
towards the state, which they view as well-intentioned but incompetent in
execution with regards to programs for sex workers. We by no means wish to
undermine or devalue their achievements; we applaud them for their efforts and
are glad to know that there exists an organization standing for the interests of
sex workers in Vietnam! But we cannot ignore the fact they achieved this only
through the State framework, by cooperating and showing understanding to the
machine which in the end perpetuates capitalism, and wish to see them exploited
as workers. What they have accomplished is undeniably good, but in the long run,
the state can never be a liberatory tool. Another thing is that a substantial
part of their funding comes from liberal NGOs and NPOs. They themselves
acknowledge that it is a challenge for them to organize without that funding,
which will eventually go away. So once again, in spite of the good, we are
obligated to point out that this form of organization cannot lead to the total
liberation of the oppressed: an organization dependent on funding from liberal
sources can never work to break free of the chains of the status quo, only the
painstaking lengthening of those chains.

So we would say that the blindspots of the organizing by and for folks of
marginalized genders, sexualities and sex workers in Vietnam is that there is no
interlinking of struggles. The feminists can pinpoint the unlevel playground
between men and women, but many are oblivious to, say, class struggles, of ethnic
minority women, of queer people and of sex workers. Indeed, feminism in Vietnam
applauds the icon of a successful career woman, a girl-boss CEO who are not
dependent on men. The same with queer people: many strive to assimilate into the
cis-het society by broadcasting that they can be as "normal," as successful in
their careers as non-queer people. And so the poor queers, the disabled queers,
the queers who are not Kinh, and many more, are further marginalized and don't
have a place within the queer community. On top of that, their organizing are
dependent on the State framework, on funding from NGOs and NPOs: they need NGO
and NPO money to campaign for the government to give them more rights. And in our
opinion, that kind of organizing is not sustainable and will never lead to total
liberation. There will always be people who are unlucky enough to be the
scapegoat, who are at the bottom of the hierarchy and cast to the fringe of society.

TFSR: Speaking as someone from the so-called USA, which participated in much of
the 35 years of war Vietnam experienced in the mid-20th century following
centuries of colonial extractivism at the hands of the states of France, China,
Japan and others, I wonder if you can talk about the legacy of colonialism and
war are on the peoples and environment of Vietnam?

Mai: This is personal to us. In my family, leftovers are seriously frowned upon,
even just a single grain of rice. I remember, this was when I was about 5 or 6,
leaving the dining table after finishing the meal, and got called back to eat one
single grain of rice left in my bowl. This is because there are family members
who are still alive, who survived the Vietnamese famine of 1945, caused by
Japanese and French colonialism, together with the US bombing the transport
system. An estimated 2 million Vietnamese people starved to death. There is also
the persisting catastrophe of Agent Orange. Personally, someone in my direct
family was exposed, and we have to deal with various medical complications.
Ironically, if you Google "Agent Orange," the top results are almost all about
its effects on US veterans; few are about its lasting effects on Vietnamese
people and our ecosystem.

If you'd like to learn more about the atrocities that the US army committed in
Vietnam, we'd recommend you to first, well, talk to Vietnamese people. You can
also read the "Winter Soldier Investigation," which consists of first-hand
testimonies from GIs about the many daily My Lais that they themselves had
committed or witnessed in Vietnam. You may notice that this investigation has the
same name as a fictional character from a famous franchise widely regarded as
pro-US military propaganda. Now, of course this could very well be a total
coincidence, but even so, the incidental effect is quite real. It casts a shadow
over the investigation mentioned above regardless. The way information about war
crimes and its devastating aftermath on people outside of the US is obscured like
that is just one in a million ways how US imperialism and cultural hegemony are
harming us right this moment. And as far as we know, the documents from
that[Winter Soldier]investigation hasn't even been translated into Vietnamese for
the younger generation to access and read about what happened to our predecessors.

Another product of US-centrism, which manifests plentily in anarchist and leftist
circles: in political discourse, Vietnam, a country, a people with our own
complex and diverse history, is constantly reduced to and talked about solely in
our relation to the US. Not the whole span of that relation either, but only 20
years of slaughter and ecocide. For example, on the website of the longest
running anarchist magazine in the US called The Fifth Estate, they have a page
about Vietnam that is described as: "VIETNAM The failed US war and resistance to
it from an anarchist/anti-authoritarian perspective"

Vietnam is not just a "failed US war." Refusing to view us as humans with our own
complex history and ongoing struggles leads to dissidents like us Viet
anarchists, who don't solely paint Vietnam as the US' helpless victim, being
branded "fake Vietnamese, CIA pawns, agent provocateurs." The irony here is
palpable. If you stop for one second and just look at the whole span of Vietnam's
relation with the US, you'll see how the Vietnamese capitalists have no qualms
shaking hands with US capitalists in their quest to exploit Viet workers. The
Vietnamese and the US militaries are being all pally now, with weapon trades and
personnel training courses! The US framework of every political topic is also
routinely forced upon us, to the point that a Viet person who doesn't understand
every nook and cranny of US politics and its lexicon won't be able to participate
in political discourse without risking being torn apart, figuratively. Meanwhile,
many US leftists/anarchists will brazenly insert themselves and their narratives
in almost every conversation about Vietnam that we try to have, without taking
the time and effort to learn the Vietnamese context.

And this benefits no one but US imperialism and, ironically, the Vietnamese
authoritarians and statists. They capitalize on the very real frustration of Viet
people who know that their struggle is completely ignored and dismissed by the US
and Western left. They'd constantly and only talk about how horribly awful the US
is, reducing Vietnam to its helpless victim - a glorious, brave and united nation
against a common foreign enemy. On top of that, because social media favors
moralized content, they'd build their platform on moralized, hateful language and
rhetoric. They target a clueless Western audience who prefer self-flagellation
and tokenism, rather than carefully examining information, educating themselves
and developing their own analysis. When faced with criticism, the statists will
weaponize their identities to silence and even harass their political opponents,
accusing any Vietnamese speaking differently of being fake Vietnamese. Statists
and career communists capitalizing on disinformation about Vietnam have
threatened us with state violence and we have no doubt they will report us to the
authority the first chance they've got. Of course, US imperialism permeates many
corners of this earth, but to view, for instance, a Kinh Viet person living in
Vietnam as merely a "person of color" erases the privilege that their ethnicity
affords them domestically, erases the reason for their loyalty to the Vietnamese
nation-state. We humbly ask people to de-center the US and its bloody war from
conversations about Vietnam - it is long overdue. Thank you.

tùng: To add on to that, after the war, information about Agent Orange was slow
in reaching Viet people, and so a lot went on to have children without having
been adequately informed and prepared. I personally knew a family whose first
child is blind deaf with intellectual disability, due to their parents' exposure
to Agent Orange. Without any compensation from the US nor adequate disability
care from the Vietnamese government, the Vietnamese victims of Agent Orange have
to fend for themselves on their own, generation after generation. They receive
about from $5 to $20/person/month, depending on the severity of their conditions
and I think this money is not enough to survive on for a whole month.

And there are the millions of people who were displaced by the war, cut out from
their cultural roots and families, forced to assimilate into a new society. Many
lost their lives fleeing a war torn country with a shiny new state high on
victory and hell bent on vengeance. The ones lucky enough to have reached their
destinations and settled down know no ways of reconciling and reconnecting with
their "dong bào" - compatriots back in Vietnam. They can't learn about the
struggle in Vietnam without being manipulated and fed lies, thanks to state
censorship and hateful nationalist sentiments.

TFSR: How can international listeners in the international community looking to
be solidarity with struggles in so-called Vietnam and learn more & help? Are
there any projects they can support or other sources of learning that you would
suggest?

Will: There is a proverb in Vietnamese: "Nuoc xa không cuu duoc lua gan," which
roughly translates to: "Water afar cannot put out a nearby fire." So, the
absolute best thing you can do for us, specifically, is to organize in your own
community, and to educate yourself about the struggles in Vietnam, without
unquestioningly absorbing disinformation like a sad sponge. It also helps if you
rethink and refrain from projecting your own localized societal standards and
frameworks onto situations in Vietnam, which usually have little in common. And
this should be obvious, but: don't use our struggles as mere ammunition in your
struggles. When you go to do solidarity, you should not reduce us to media tokens
and talking points.

As of now, Viet anarchists are outnumbered, our voices drowned out by pro-state
propaganda. And so, every single person who refuses to fall for said propaganda
is a win for us! You don't need to listen to us, to Mèo Mun specifically, of
course-we don't claim to be the best source on every single topic related to the
struggle in Vietnam, far from it-but please be very cautious of the
disinformation from statists. Talk to as many Viet people as possible, and
remember that we are not a hivemind and our experiences and opinions do vary! If
you're a reader, there are many texts on the Southeast Asian Anarchist Library
concerning Vietnam and its history. So, do read close if you're interested.

And if you're into direct action, please pay attention to the migrant worker
scene in your community. The conditions of Vietnamese migrant workers, especially
undocumented ones, are often abysmal and they are extremely vulnerable to
exploitation. And I'd dare to say that many so-called-Global-South migrant
workers are vulnerable to exploitation. We'd be very happy to know that someone
is looking out for them.

TFSR: Is there anything I failed to ask about that you'd like to discuss?

Will: Not really, but I'd like to, on behalf of Mèo Mun, express our heart-felt
thanks to Bursts for reaching out to us, for your very thought-provoking and
interesting questions, and for spending time with us today. We appreciate your
giving us this platform, and though we try our best to cover what we experience
in Vietnam, at the end of the day, our experience is just an experience. It is
not universal and by no means can we claim to speak for every Viet person. We
only hope that our speaking up gives you some tiny glimpses into our lives and
struggles, which similar to any lives and struggles, are human, messy, and
imperfect. So thank you for listening and seeing us!

Mai: Thank you!

TFSR: Thank you, all of you, for participating in this and also to the collective
for collaboration in the answers. And I appreciate you taking the time doing this
in English for the audience, I'm looking forward to this being a contribution
towards more international understanding and solidarity. So, thank you!
Related Link:
https://thefinalstrawradio.noblogs.org/post/2021/11/13/meo-mun-anarchist-views-from-vietnam/

Mèo Mun, Anarchist Views from Vietnam: Interview with The Final Straw Radio

https://www.anarkismo.net/article/32478
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