"From my way of understanding economic evolution towards anarchism, cooperativism
is a step prior to collectivism, in the same way that collectivism is a stepprior to libertarian communism," explains Aitor Pueyo, who recalls that "when theideas of the CNT spread, cooperativism had a crucial weight in society». In hisopinion, the working class should consider cooperativism in situations such asthe closure of companies or widespread layoffs. "We let them all close and wewait to collect unemployment until we get another job, with surely worse workingconditions," he criticizes.He asks: How did the idea of the cooperative come about?Answer: It was born from 2011. After the occupation of the squares by the 15Mpeople, in Sant Joan Despí there is a debate about the disconnection of thecompanies from the Ibex35, to avoid in a certain way that our money goes to thebig corporations , which are protagonists of most of the problems that exist. Weare enthusiastic about some projects such as Som Energia, which we value as agood alternative, cooperative and committed to renewable energy. Due to ourtechnical profiles, we see that the guifi.net network also exists, which was bornin the Osona region as a telecommunications network that offers Internet accessusing different technologies. So, with this main idea, in 2013 we jumped into thering, called a meeting with different people and in the end we formed acooperative, focusing our work on promoting the guifi.net network in the regionwe live in, Baix Llobregat.Q: What did you need to start the creation process?A: Well, first of all, wanting to do it, and secondly, having the technicalknowledge to be able to build the network. It is important to train, we cannotlimit ourselves, because capitalism already works so that we only produce whereand what the system itself wants. In order to develop a new world, with newstructures, we must have training and initiative.To self-manage a factory, a workshop or the field, you have to know how to holdassemblies, make decisions horizontally, respecting the ideas of the otherperson. And know that your salary and that of your travel companions depends onthese decisions.Q: How has the project evolved in these almost ten years?A: From the beginning until now there have been changes. People left the projectand new people joined. In fact, along the way, we met another project called SomEficiència, whose focus was to carry out energy efficiency studies to save onutility bills that come to the home (electricity, water, gas...). Since bothprojects did installations and repairs... we saw that we could get rich if we gottogether, and we did so. Today, we have a fairly high volume of work, and thishas led us to cancel the guifibaix cooperative and we are right now in theprocess of setting up a new one more in line with the work we are doing.Q: The cooperative movement is very famous for being subsidized, which could notsurvive without money from the state. Is this true?A: For my part, I am not in favor of receiving subsidies, for various reasons.One of the main reasons is that the state justifies its taxes through theseitems. As libertarians, we want the disappearance of the State, with which weshould seek the maximum reduction of taxes for the people, and requestingsubsidies only encourages them to charge us taxes. That is, to request subsidies,we have to pay taxes, the state has to hire officials to manage these subsidiesand everything that this entails. In other words, it is more expensive for us asa society that subsidies exist, when it would be easier if they do not force usto pay so many taxes. One of the main reasons why some projects do not work isbecause of the delusional amount of taxes that must be paid to the state, whichin the end you have to affect the cost of your work and we are not just talkingabout VAT. And that is paid whether you have a somewhat stabilized economy or notOn the other hand, the subsidies are linked to certain conditions and proceduresto which you generally have to dedicate time that diverts you from your activity.In other words, instead of dedicating yourself to your work, you must dedicatetime to fulfill the characteristics that the grant establishes. In addition, aproject that is not self-managed, that is to say that it depends on subsidies, isnot a firm project, since the subsidy depends on the party that governs and ifyour cooperative depends on the party that is in the corresponding town hall, youhave a stability problem. Likewise, it is true that in cooperatives there aremany subsidies that come and go.In my union we have always said that whoever proposes accepts, and whoever doesnot accept does not propose and, if they can, supports. With what it has beenachieved that whoever has the initiative is the one who can move forward.Q: Is cooperativism related to anarcho-syndicalism?A: At the beginning of the 20th century, when the ideas of the CNT spread,cooperativism had a crucial weight in society. Many times only strikes or actiongroups stand out, but that existing economic revolution was the engine that madecollectivism a reality during the years 1936-39. Currently, when there has been alockout, and although a union section of the CNT seeks to take over the company,there are hardly any references in the union for projects that work horizontally.Added to this, it is very difficult for a group of people in general to reject orreinvest compensation of EUR20,000 or EUR30,000 to set up a cooperative that youdon't know if it will work or not.Q: But what the CNT seeks is to collectivize the means of production, not to paytaxes to the State, even if it is in another way.A: Exactly. From my way of understanding economic evolution towards anarchism,cooperativism is a step prior to collectivism, in the same way that collectivismis a step prior to libertarian communism. Collectivism works during the processof change, while the horizontal and assembly political system is stabilizing. Toexplain better. Anarchism is a political system, which marks how society shouldbe organized. But anarchism, paraphrasing Malatesta, cannot define its economicmodel because it must be the same society of that moment that defines it. In thisregard, it is a great success that an economic system is not mixed with apolitical system. At present, in the Spanish State we live in a parliamentarypolitical system, and a capitalist economic model. Well, a part of thecooperative movement seeks to create a different economic model with the rules ofthe game that exist. It is impossible to follow the development towardscollectivism without going through this experience.Q: Why is it impossible?A: Because self-management is not explained, it is practiced. To self-manage afactory, a workshop or the field, it is not just saying it, you have to know howto hold assemblies, make decisions horizontally respecting the ideas of the otherperson. And it must be said that not only does your motivation depend on thesedecisions, but also your salary, your monthly support and that of your travelcompanions. I feel that there is a need for a strong reflection on why, in theface of the lockouts that have occurred in all these years, more companies havenot become cooperatives. We let them all close and we wait to collectunemployment until we get another job, with probably worse working conditions.There is a need for a strong reflection on why, given the lockouts that haveoccurred in all these years, more companies have not become cooperatives. We letthem all close and we wait to collect unemployment until we get another job, withprobably worse working conditions.Q: Where do you see that this reflection is missing?A: Well, when I saw what was being said, for example, at the XII Congress, I sawthe same concern as always: "There is a lack of training." The problem that I seein this reflection is that it is said from inactivity. It is not said "I haveprepared a workshop" or "I have a group to work on or develop this idea". Theidea is thrown into the air with the risk that it stays in the air, or that it isforced in some way to carry it out, which will happen for one or two years and,after that, it will stop being done. It is a cycle that is constantly repeatedand from my point of view it is a problem, because self-management is notdelegating and direct action is doing it without intermediaries, so with this wayof thinking you are delegating to an entity that trains you in what you want tolearn and help you to interact in what you do not see yourself with the capacityto carry out... Anarcho-syndicalism must be active, it must be alive, it must notbe limited in that aspect to militancy. In my union, Cornellà, we have alwayssaid that those who propose support, and those who do not support do not proposeand, if they can, support. With what it has been achieved that whoever hasinitiative and motivation, is the one who can move forward with the idea that heplanted. We see the secretary as someone she organizes, but she doesn't have tobe the one to carry all the work.Another situation is when someone goes to an assembly with the idea of breaking awork dynamic without proposing solid alternatives, here we are facing a seriousproblem that must be stopped at its root, because that person who stops the workhas no connection with the work , the effort and motivation that has existed andhe will not mind throwing the work done in the trash, so that his idea can goahead, which can be a source of conflicts.https://www.cnt.es/noticias/el-cooperativista-busca-crear-un-modelo-economico-diferente/_________________________________________A - I N F O S N E W S S E R V I C EBy, For, and About AnarchistsSend news reports to A-infos-en mailing listA-infos-en@ainfos.ca
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