For more than four years, Muslim women have been campaigning for access to
municipal swimming pools in Grenoble. Coming from working-class neighborhoods,they carried out several direct actions of protest against the discriminatoryregulations, launched the " Swimming pool for all " movement and were able toset up a union to fight to establish a balance of power against an opportunisttown hall. The Grenoble group has forged, through the actions carried out, linkswith the SFM and is now delivering an interview with one of the members. ----Libertarian Alternative: Can you introduce the union ? ---- Soumeya: We are theUnion of Muslim Women (SFM) part of the Citizen Alliance (AC), an associationthat supports the creation of citizens' unions throughout France. The SFM wascreated in 2018 by women from Teisseire, [1]who noticed discrimination againstthem, such as the impossibility of taking their children to the swimming pool. Bydeepening the subject, it turned out that there were many women concerned and whowere ready to organize themselves and constitute a specific union of Muslim women.What is the link between the SFM and the Citizen Alliance ?The CA has the status of an association to which the trade unions are attached.An inter-union council with representatives from each union acts as the Board ofDirectors. In Grenoble, there are currently three CA unions: the Union ofDisabled Citizens, the Union of Tenants and the Union of Muslim Women. There arethree Citizen Alliances in France: Grenoble, Aubervilliers and Grand Lyon. Andeco-unions currently being created. Within the CA, employees are doing worksimilar to union organizers in order to form unions of citizens who suffer fromdiscrimination.So the SFM was formed in Grenoble ?Yes, the movement was first launched in Grenoble with the campaign for access toswimming pools for all, then in Lyon where there were actions against sportshalls with the aim of changing their internal regulations which discriminateagainst women wearing headscarves. In 2020, during confinement, a union of Muslimwomen from the CA was set up in Paris focused on discrimination in sport againstwomen wearing the headscarf: the Hijabeuses.The principle of unions at CA is to mount a campaign against a specificinjustice, winnable quickly and which leads to another campaign, etc. For theSFM, things happened differently given all the political noise generated andwhich was not expected. Our fight has been going on for 4 years, making it thelongest running fight in CA.Can you recall the chronology of your struggle ?Our fight started in 2019 with first the launch of a petition which had collectedmore than 200 signatures and a meeting with elected officials of the town hallwhich led to nothing. In 2019, we still did an action at the Dauphins swimmingpool in Villeneuve [2], around twenty women went there with covering swimsuits ;they hadn't been to the swimming pool for 10, 20, 30 years... then another timeat the Jean Bron swimming pool, an action which was repressed by the police andwhich generated widespread media noise. The participants did not expect it at alland lived through real hell, some even moved from Grenoble.In 2020, confinement requires, it was more complicated to organize or carry outactions but we continued our reminders to the town hall to request anappointment. At the end of the confinement, the actions resumed: demonstrations,banner actions on buildings with the presence of journalists, etc. in order toput the pressure to be received in town hall.In 2021, a pool party was organized in the hall of the town hall, and faced withthe refusal to receive us, we redid swimming pool actions, in particular in JeanBron where we once again suffered repression from the police. and lifeguards.Following this we were received by the town hall but the elected officials didnot dialogue and refused our requests en bloc.In September 2021, the city set up the " citizen inquiry system ": anyone canfile a petition and the number of signatory residents gives access, in stages, tocertain possibilities. With fifty signatures we are entitled to two " mediation" meetings with elected officials. We have therefore decided to relaunch apetition. In October, a first mediation made it clear that we are a movement ofwomen who just want to go swimming. It's not about political Islam, and itdoesn't go beyond the covering shirt. That's when we launched the slogan " mybody, my choice, my jersey "to ask for the removal of the notion of length andour request no longer only concerned the covering jersey but also the topless forexample. It allowed other women to join our fight.Following the second mediation which took place at the end of January, theelected officials were in favor of our request, but Mayor Eric Piolle had thelast word despite a semblance of citizen democracy, and he refused. Thisunjustified decision led the elected equal rights representative Chloé Le Bret toresign, which had a major impact on the town hall internally. So we organized arally the same evening to contest this decision." A feminist organization and composed mainly of girls, two main characteristicsof the first organizations to have shown their support "After these events, our petition was no longer useful and we decided to be morevisible in the Grenoble militant community in terms of demonstrations. The firstorganization to have supported us, and for a long time the only one, wasNousToustes38, a feminist organization composed mainly of girls, two maincharacteristics of the first organizations to have shown their support .Accidentally, an elected official announced in the press that the town hall wouldrule on this subject at the beginning of spring. Piolle, under pressure formonths and obliged to meet this deadline taken over and publicized by the SFM,announces that the subject of the covering jersey is on the agenda of theMunicipal Council of May 16. After this announcement, a discussion channel withthe city is set up in order to clarify the exchanges and because the town hallespecially did not want there to be another swimming pool action, to avoidtensions with all the national spotlights trained on Grenoble - Piolle beingattacked from all sides. And that's what was strong in our movement, we managedto impose a balance of power through our actions and the media noise that itgenerated, with newspaper headlines that scathing: " Piolle sends the nationalpolice to prevent women from bathing .The period between the announcement of the agenda of the municipal council of May16 and its holding was a very eventful period between the national press, thefachos, Wauquiez who spoke of withdrawing subsidies in Grenoble if it passed...How do you perceive the media ? Are they your allies or not so much by makingyour fight a huge subject when it is only a question of changing an internalregulation ?It does not come from us this desire to create a huge subject. We know that thecountry is crazy on these issues, but at this point... Between the announcementof the municipal council's agenda and May 16, there was a period when we nolonger controlled anything, the town hall no longer controlled anything, thewhole country took up the subject. We easily did 5 to 6 interviews a day with allthe national press that came down, Europe 1, BFMTV and France Inter at the sametime in the streets of Grenoble doing micro sidewalks then coming to the ACoffices to have us interviewed .We were sorting, BFMTV we don't answer, CNEWS we don't answer. Generally we tookeveryone except the worst. Valeurs Actuelles contacted us: " It's reallydifficult to meet one of your activists ! » . As soon as a journalist got mynumber, they passed it on to each other. My phone didn't work anymore, now it'sbetter but I received between 50 to 100 messages per hour, all applicationscombined, from 7 a.m. to midnight. And the closer May 16 approached, the moredifficult it became for us with the organization of this big event." It was also at this moment that we realized the balance of power "But we knew that our victory depended on our ability to respond to journalists.So we chained the interviews to repeat the same things, with the elements oflanguage, etc. for journalists who knew very well when they arrived what would bewritten, no matter what they were going to say. It was also at this moment thatwe realized the balance of power. The media, if they wanted their article tostand out from the others, they knew that there had to be our word in it. Weallowed ourselves to say to some: " no, we don't want to answer you ". Whereasat the beginning, as soon as the little local newspaper wanted to write somethingabout us, we said yes. The journalists wanted to talk to us and it was up to usto decide whether we wanted to talk to them or not. That's when we realized thatsomething had changed and that we had become indispensable when we talked aboutthis fight.Something remarkable happened to us ten days before May 16th. Someone knocks atour offices and introduces himself: " Hello, I am a journalist at Le Parisien ,can I have an interview ? While normally journalists do not come unannounced, wefirst had to agree on an appointment . We make it wait, but we decide to acceptit, saying to ourselves that it would still be good for an article in Le Parisien. We found him quite nice and we even offered him coffee. During the interview hetook up our elements of language by talking to us about patriarchy, feminism, hetook notes, thanked us and left. And there, three days later, the article from LeParisienaccuses us of filing, of entering the town hall by putting pressure onelected officials and of being an association of Islamists, etc. He accuses us offiling because of our membership documents: when you join, it's normal that thereis your information. These are the methods of the CA but when we go door to doorwe have a " comments " box where we put for example the reason for someone'sanger, what makes him want to engage. Like any association, like any union, likeany political party. It was taken out of context, just to damage our image. Thetwo boxes that came out and that caused controversy were one where we had put: "vote FN "and suddenly it was to tell himself not to talk to him about thecovering jerseys, because he was a tenant and therefore only interested in thestruggle of the tenants. And another box where it said someone had just hadsurgery and it was just to say that she couldn't come to the meetings and therewas no point in calling her for actions and meetings because she had just beenreleased from the hospital. In Le Parisien they insinuated that we practiceracial, ethnic and personal health data !We see that some reports highlight testimonies that oppose your claims, but you,what were the reactions you saw during your pool actions ?There are indeed people who are against our approach, especially men, but we alsohave a lot of people who support us and who do not hesitate to show it by leavingthe pool and refusing to enter the pool out of solidarity. . Often people, duringour swimming pool actions, come to us to ask us questions about our claims and inthis case we explain to them. There are people in our group whose role will be todiscuss with others and make them aware of our struggle." Now in the militant milieu people recognize us, know which organizations webelong to, before that was not the case "But given that the strategy of the police and the lifeguards is to give us thewrong role by closing the pool to everyone and making us responsible, it issometimes delicate with the other users and users. There are several who tell us:" I'm hot, I wanted to swim but I'm going to leave, there's no way I'm going toswim if you're not entitled to it " . And so there are several who leave, that'sgood - at the same time a guy starts talking to a girl from the union and says toher " You're rehired, I work all day and I'm hot, I just want to come and relaxand I can't ". The comrade tries to answer her that she actually hasn't beenable to bathe since she was little. She tried to stay " square " but burst intotears. It was a very moving moment. That's where we took the photo that was shownwith the replies to the police in front of the swimming pool. We stayed in front,chanting slogans, taken up by other people. I feel like it's kind of the firsttime people started to recognize us. Now in the militant milieu people recognizeus, know which organizations we belong to, before that was not the case.At the same time, there is someone in the queue for the swimming pool who comesto see us and who says to us: " You know, this is the first time that I haveseen a woman wearing a headscarf smiling. And there we understood the extent ofthe work that we were going to have to do.When leaving, we walk along the pool on the way back and there we hear all thepeople who were in the water starting to pick up our song and with the windowsopen it's a bit like in a gymnasium, it made you super loud and you could hearthem from the street ; we didn't know who it was since we hadn't been able to getin. It was a strong moment.Can you tell a little more about the events of the pool action at Jean Bron in 2019 ?In Jean Bron, swimming itself is going well, but it's at the exit of the swimmingpool that we see cops and CRS trucks waiting for us. And there is panic, becauseat the SFM and within the AC in general, we are women who experiencediscrimination and who have a desire to act against it. We organize ourselves andsee that it is possible to fight, but we are not seasoned activists who expectpolice repression.Identity checks, pressure, intimidation... and it is this moment that marks thebeginning of the over-mediatization, of the pressures. The national media quicklyseized on the subject when they came to Grenoble.The women who took this action in Jean Bron lived through real hell, theyreceived threats at home, suffered pressure from their husbands and families.Even the Imam of Teisseire, who had not been asked his opinion, took a stand inthe affair by condemning the action of the women in the swimming pool. And byadding to it the relentlessness of the arrests in the street and the media noise,up to the envelopes that we received with excrement at the premises of the AC.All this pressure, whether from the media or from families, has made the fightvery complicated, especially for people who are not militant people and thereforeare not prepared for things to take on such a large scale. , despite theirfamiliarity with the Islamophobic climate.In addition, the AC had difficulty in registering in the Grenoble militantnetwork, so there was little support and total isolation. Because of that, of allthe women present in 2019, only one remains. The other women, we can no longerreach them. And the pressure was also aimed at their children, whether from theirteachers or other children.Following this action and the media noise it generated, the elected officialsagreed to receive us but refused to listen to us and contented themselves withreading a press release written by Eric Piolle. The year 2019 therefore ends onthis lack of dialogue with the town hall.Have any of you ever been in custody ?No, they tried to push us to make mistakes with provocation and intimidation, butwe always kept our calm.What do you think of the use of the word burkini ?At the SFM, we do not use this word (just like the word " veil ") which hasbeen popularized by the right and the extreme right by making the link with theburqa [3], the integral veil which does not any part of our claim type. We preferto use the term covering shirt which also allows to include people who would wearit for other reasons, such as allergies or others.Do you think that the broadening of claims to topless has changed public opinion ?We think it played yes. We are convinced that if we were able to go so far it isbecause we used elements of feminist language in our speech, that we were nolonger fighting just for the covering jersey but also for the topless. And no onechallenged the idea of topless at the pool too much since everyone was focused onwearing a covering swimsuit. And in real life, so much the better, it's all goodfor this fight.How was the period before D-Day on May 16 for you ?This whole period was very painful, harassment on the networks, we are recognizedand a little bored in the street, fachos hang around in front of our offices...We had our offices at the PCF, but given the pressure and the tensions, hedecided to put everyone in " telework ", at the worst possible time. We had towork from home, in cafes etc. It was hot to be on the phone in the street, in thetram, because as soon as they heard about the AC people turned around. I havealready been followed by guys who wanted to hear what I was saying on the phone.We only went to two or three cafes where we knew we could talk without fear. Buteveryone, the whole town was aware of what was going on, and was divided on thesesubjects.As May 16 approached, the Ministry of the Interior increased the pressure on theassociation. Several months ago, in fact as soon as we started to be a union ofMuslim women which organizes itself politically, we had a visit from the DGSI tothe offices. The PCF paid them a visit because we weren't there. Visit of theDGSI in the offices, generally it is to put microphones. It's crazy the meansused to prevent the organization of Muslim women. We understood that we werewiretapped, or in any case under surveillance, whether in the office with men insuits and ties hanging around in front of us, or on our mailboxes. But we weren'tprepared for all that, the AC is a citizens' organization, we didn't know wecould come to this, we're on Gmail, we are on WhatsApp... So we knew that ouremails were read, that our calls were heard, our WhatsApps monitored... with thepressure increasing, the fachos who came to the offices... It was really a whole,and more we were approaching May 16 and worse it was. We were aware that whateverthe decision on D-Day, it was not going to stop overnight. In Grenoble it is notcommon for an organization to be so repressed, even though it uses legal channelsand has no revolutionary project. We didn't think it would fall on us. We wereaware that whatever the decision on D-Day, it was not going to stop overnight. InGrenoble it is not common for an organization to be so repressed, even though ituses legal channels and has no revolutionary project. We didn't think it wouldfall on us. We were aware that whatever the decision on D-Day, it was not goingto stop overnight. In Grenoble it is not common for an organization to be sorepressed, even though it uses legal channels and has no revolutionary project.We didn't think it would fall on us.It was very strong what we were able to do collectively with the other activistsWithout access to our offices, we found ourselves isolated when we had to worktogether. We no longer even dared to speak with other activists or go to militantplaces in Grenoble like 38 or 102 [4]for fear of getting our comrades in trouble.We were dangerous where we were going.Regarding D-Day, we were originally supposed to hold the event at the TouristOffice but the metropolis blocked access to the room, so on May 16, the samemorning, we were in talks before the administrative court. to request access tothe room for our event, which was to be held in the evening... and we wereunsuccessful.With this refusal, and given that we were expecting at least 300 people at thescreening, we put pressure on the town hall, which finally freed up a room forus. At the time of the event, we see the audience of journalists who werethere... it was impressive, with the sound poles and everything. We called on allthe national teams of the Alliance, with the Muslim women's unions of the threecities, the hijabeuses, the employees of the Alliance of the three cities, thegirls of Lyon, and we held meetings to prepare and where the watchword was to SAYNOTHING in the room with all the journalists etc. We had to be irreproachable andwe had to manage the behavior of all the people at the event in addition to theorder service, because it could fall on us.We had echoes of fachos coming down from Lyon, Reconquest rallies... We had toand we were able to make a dissuasive SO for May 16 thanks to the antifascistinterorga, it was very strong what we had been able to do collectively with theother activists.After the favorable result, in the evening the prefecture which tweets that itattacks the regulation with a secularism summary. It was the law againstseparatism that allowed this, which allows the state to intervene within 48 hoursfor serious violations of the principles of secularism . The days that followedMay 16... we paid for our victory: the PCF which does not renew the lease andofficially kicks us out, Le Parisienand all the others continue with theirarticles, the prefecture itself seizes the prosecutor for the filing, thedirector of the AC spends three hours in free hearing. A comrade is fired fromher job because she was visible in the photos of May 16, another who is attackedin the street... The repression and violence are far from over !What happened after May 16 ?The prefecture blocks the decision of the Municipal Council and we therefore goto the public session at the administrative court. There we discover thatDarmanin himself is behind this call which says word for word that the town hallof Grenoble has suffered Islamist, terrorist, community pressure. When we arrivedin court, there were four of us and we found, without being prepared for it, witha number of journalists and with UNI Grenoble.Regarding the decision, we were quite confident because the lawyers, our lawyerand even law professors at the University of Grenoble Alpes said that the appealwas not going to pass. But the atmosphere in the room does not reassure us, thejudges make fun of the city lawyer and the UNI takes the opportunity to launch: " it's the tablecloths I think they want to allow in the water ", the roomlaughs, the judges do not call for silence. While we, to avoid getting fired, wedon't say anything, we don't laugh.After two hours, we learn that the article is suspended for reason of: "non-respect of the principle of neutrality of the public service " by affirmingthat it was to yield to a communitarian request and an attack on secularism. Itwas a blow to see that justice also took up the elements of language of theextreme right and the fachos. The city tweets in the evening that it isappealing. The Council of State then sets a date for the hearing.At that moment, we face everything that we theorize about the racist State andcomplicit Justice, it is concrete and public. Darmanin put pressure on the court,it is no longer legal decisions, it is political decisions.In Rennes, there is already a regulation which allows the wearing of the coveringjersey, why has it blocked so much in Grenoble ?In Grenoble, article 10 of the regulations has an inconsistency: it is writtenthat the swimsuits must be close to the body but can go up to mid-thigh, whichvery explicitly describes the swimsuit covering the burkini type, but also thatthe swim shorts are prohibited. So the article is too derogatory for burkinis,while in Rennes swim shorts are authorized, so the covering swimsuit is no exception.Basically, if the Council of State went in the direction of the prefecture bysaying that it is an attack on the principle of neutrality, Rennes as well asother French cities would have been obliged to review the regulations. Thiscampaign could no longer be launched in other cities. Conversely, if the Councilaffirms that it is not a question of secularism and that we win, this wouldoblige all the cities where women have requested it, to authorize bathing in acovering swimsuit. Case law. That's why we ruled out this path from the start,very risky.We can add that it is also because in Grenoble it comes from a request from agroup of concerned people who have organized themselves, who take direct actionand who manage to establish a balance of power sufficient to switch amunicipality. In Rennes it's just a decision that the town hall took alone,without people making this claim for several years. That's why it got so muchcriticism, everyone wanted to know who was going to win.There is a vagueness concerning the result of the fight, was it won or not ?After analysis, now in Grenoble you can go swimming in a swimsuit covering thesurf suit type, but the skirt is a problem because it is not close to the bodyand at mid-thigh.Basically, it's a victory for us because in Grenoble topless is allowed and youcan come and bathe in a bathing suit without a skirt. They were unable tocompletely let us win, so it depends on how the story is told.How did the Grenoble militant community react ?At first it was complicated, each person from X organization or collective whosupported us, came back to his organization saying: " Ok ! We sign the pressrelease ", but she was directly confronted with the reaction of her comrades: "Are you sure ? because issues of the veil divide feminists, etc. ". So we knew,it made us laugh and we wanted to say to each new supporter: " go back to yourorganization first, we know very well what the reaction of your comrades will be". But the people who support us really do, because we know that in the militantmilieu, left-wing circles do not have consensus. And in 2019 that's really whatwas missing, when women were threatened, there was no one to support them.After May 16, after our victory, we had more support, everyone agrees with thevictory. Some criticize the Alliance for having employees, say that we arecapitalists, that we should not capitalize on our activism, etc., you can hearit. But it's not because you don't agree that you have to refuse to organizeyourself with us who take it seriously. It's not because you don't agree that youshouldn't join the SO on the evening of May 16 when we know that there are allthe fascists from France who are coming.What would you like to say or what do you say to people on the left who are stillreluctant, who may be in relation to this famous notion of secularism or to thedifferent ways of seeing feminism ?I think it's all of these issues that keep the left from being united and getstomped on every time a law is passed. In Grenoble, because we are there andbecause we fight together through the anti-fascist interorga, for example, wewere able to make unitary SOs for our event. We know that if tomorrow the townhall makes a very local Islamophobic law, we will fight together against that.That's why it's important that all struggles develop locally. And then if wespend our time saying: " Ah, I don't agree with that, and with that ! » we willnot get out of it.And since we are identified as a Union of Muslim Women, as activists but notexactly , there are people who want to make us uncomfortable in interviews andwho ask us: " But religious point of view on... " and ask us all sorts ofquestions about homosexuality, for example. We answer them: " you won't be ableto divide us with your questions, we haven't been doing this for a long time " ." It makes us laugh, we come to shake up too many things at the same time ! »And that's why our union is attacked from all sides, from the right, from theleft, from fascists, but also from Muslim people because we are fighting witheveryone and we have understood that ultimately we have a common enemy. Peoplewere going crazy: " What ! You are fighting for women to be able to bathe topless !"Exactly !"- And it does not bother you ??- Not at all ! ". Convergence of Struggles isn't just a buffer, it's in action.And the last big feminist demonstrations, November 25 and March 8 were good forthat, I had the impression that no one questioned our place. At the moment we aretalking about the 4th wave of feminism with this notion of intersectionality: thethree subjects that make divergence within feminism are women who wearheadscarves, trans women and sex workers. So obviously we on our side haveovercome these differences for a long time, and nothing prevents us from fightingtogether with these women there because we are fighting for the same thing: theright to self-determination of our bodies and our lives. .People are in " What ! In addition they combine ! Muslim women defend sexworkers, but what are they saying ! " It makes us laugh, we come to shake up toomany things at the same time ! But it's cool because we learn a lot, for example,about the fight on validism because we fight with disabled women from the AC andvice versa. For example, we did a training on civil disobedience, a veryinteresting training but it was an old white guy who was not at all aware of whataudience he was addressing, ultra sexist, validist and Islamophobic on the edges.It's a girl from the handi-citizen union who says to him " Ah! It's not goodwhat you just said is Islamophobic ! and before fighting with us she wouldn'thave been aware of that at all, that's what we have to reproduce everywhere !Interview by Nada and Ram (UCL Grenoble)To validate[1] a popular district of Grenoble[2] Our 2016 article on a neighborhood where, already, nothing had changed.[3] More can be found on this subject with the Instagram post of Miana Bayani,member of the SFM, on the expression " veiled women ".[4] self-managed places in Grenoblehttps://www.unioncommunistelibertaire.org/?Entretien-avec-Soumeya-membre-du-Syndicat-des-femmes-musulmanes-SFM-L-Etat_________________________________________A - I N F O S N E W S S E R V I C EBy, For, and About AnarchistsSend news reports to A-infos-en mailing listA-infos-en@ainfos.ca
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